Are you concerned about the plans to "regenerate" Forest Gate?
We are running out of time.
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Is this what Forest Gate will look like in 2017?
Recently, at the Forest Gate Festival, my wife and I browsed a stall run by Obsidian, a property developer working in partnership with Newham Council. Their stall was about the regeneration plans for Forest Gate over the next 30 years.They included some plans and some drawings of what Forest Gate may look like in the future.
We were aware that there were plans to "regenerate" Forest Gate, and looked at some ideas at The Gate a couple of years ago. There were a number of aims that sounded very positive for the area, which included:
• create a relaxed ‘urban village’ feel away from the hubbub of Stratford and Ilford;
• ensure all development increases the quality of life for the whole of the local community;
• encourage a lively evening atmosphere with cafés, bars and restaurants in an attractive, safe neighbourhood;
• increase quality, size and quantity of shops, with a new supermarket and a mix of smaller shops including both independent and high street retailers;
• require high quality design, which enhances the unique nature of Forest Gate and fits well with its Victorian heritage;
• improve the mix of housing in the area, increasing the quality and quantity of housing and providing a range of sizes, including homes for families;
• improve employment opportunities by attracting new business and retaining existing local businesses;
• discourage hot food takeaway outlets and betting shops;
• reduce anti-social behaviour; enhance the public spaces and improve community facilities;
• encouraging more people to walk, cycle and use public transport, including Crossrail;
• ensure all development is as sustainable as possible; and
• ensure good provision of key services including education and healthcare provision and community facilities.
This all sounds great, so we were surprised that Obsidian's plans included building high-rise residential buildings that would not be social housing, but accommodation for people who would presumably not be working in the area, but would live here, commuting into central London using the new Cross Rail link at Forest Gate station, which will allow travel to central London in 20 minutes.
It looks as though this regeneration plan is not intended to benefit current residents of Forest Gate, but is an attempt to 'gentrify' the area. This will drive up rents and property prices in the area, making it more difficult for people working in the area to afford accommodation here. With the new government plans to cap housing benefit it could force the unemployed and those on low incomes to move out of the area to somewhere rents are cheaper.
We also don't see how 20 storey high rise buildings "enhance the unique nature of Forest Gate and fit well with its Victorian heritage".
We recently met with two representatives of Obsidian, who explained more about their plans. They explained that all the shops on the west side of Woodgrange Road, from the Co-op down to Greggs, will be demolished, as will Durning Hall and the houses on the north side of Earlham Grove as far as Sprowston Road. The Methodist Church hall on the east side of Woodgrange Road will also be demolished. All these buildings will be replaced by new buildings, one of them 20 storeys in height, mostly residential, but with shops at street level. Some of the current shops on Woodgrange Road will be temporarily moved to other premises and then moved back when work on new premises is complete.
Here are the other sketches and plans I photographed (with their permission) at the Obsidian stall at Forest Gate Festival:
This shows where the following drawings are looking from.
Looking north up Woodgrange Road.
Looking west up Osbourne Road.
Looking east up Earlham Grove.
Looking north up Sprowston Road.
Scheme 1
Scheme 2
The final consultation, before the first phase of these plans goes to the council for planning permission, with the Strategic Planning Development Committee will be held later this month. If Forest Gate residents want to change what is going to happen to our community, we need to act fast.
Further information and useful links:
Newham Council's web-page on the Supplementary Planning Document
Let Newham Council know what you think of their plans here: ldf@newham.gov.uk
Sign our on-line petition against these plans
I'm really concerned about this. I don't see how any of this fits in with Forest Gate or the people who live here. 26 storey high rise does not fit in with the existing Victorian street-scape.
ReplyDeleteTo improve our town, all that is necessary is to get rid of the betting shops and the fast food establishments.
An additional 850 "residential units" (we used to call them "homes") will impose 1000's of extra souls on local resources such as schools, doctors, dentists and so on.How will thses needs be met?
We are in danger of having our unique town centre transformed into yet another clone of Croydon or Basildon.
I don't want it.
I have lived in FG 25 years and found it very handy for commuting to my job in the city. I think the tower block by the station is to attract young, city commuters. I wldn't want to live there myself, but why wouldn't we want city commuters in FG? Wouldn't they enhance the area? If not what resident profile are we looking for?
ReplyDeleteThe only people who like the idea seem to be those who live in Forest Gate, commute to work in a different part of London but don't really use the local amenities or engage with the local community. There are 38,800 households in unsuitable accommodation (mostly overcrowded) in Newham. It seems absolutely crazy to me to build homes intended for people from outside the borough.
ReplyDeleteWhy not restore the existing Victorian buildings, and build more terraced houses (which are in great demand) in the derelict areas between Woodgrange Road and Sprowston Road? What a great challenge for a firm of architects, to design buildings that really do fit with the existing architecture, and enhance instead of destroying its character and quality.
I think something needs to happen in Forest Gate. I work there and help people to access the community. All the staff I work with are nervous to support people in the community as soon as it gets dark and people refuse to work past 9pm so they don't have to be walking around forest Gate too late. Bringing in people who will contribute to the area financially could be a good thing. i am quite relieved that someone is proposing something for the area as it has so much potential but currently is not a pleasant place.
ReplyDeleteI think that most people do not understand the extent of the chronic housing shortage in this country and especially in London. Land is in short supply and you are failing to understand this if you suggest that we try and build more terraced housing that looks like 'Victorian' housing. Young people want a community that reflects their vision of modern urban living. People who want to live somewhere with a 'quaint village' feel should move to the Cotswolds. London is a thriving cosmopolitan city and people come here to work hard and play hard. You middle class 'nimbys' should put your money where your mouths are and invest in your local community if you want nice cafes and gastropubs but you can't because you are at home raising families. Young professionals working in the city attract investment as they go out and spend money and that is why developers want to attract them. Once the money and investment arrives you'll get your pizza express and waitrose appearing on the high street but until then you'll be stuck with chick'n lick'n and kebab central...
ReplyDeleteThese proposals are a positive addition to the urban fabric of Forest Gate. They will cement the village as a unique community, different from Stratford or Illford because it is much smaller in scale.
ReplyDeleteWe must look out for the less privilaged in our community, and this development provides vast numbers of homes on a very small site thereby reliving the pressure that newcomers would inevitabley have on the existing housing stock with the arrival of Crossrail. The community must come together and force the local authority to protect the local disadvantaged and prevent wholescale gentrification. This development is the first step in the right direction. Existing communities can remain intact and the demand for new housing can be met by this development.
We must make the local authority insist that there is a social and affordable element to this development. Too often developers manage to sidestep this requirement with payoffs. Lets together fight for a quality public realm and new urban spaces that actually work for the community - this is where our energy should go. We want to see the grand vision actually realised and not some watered down version of it. The local authority must be rootless in demanding the highest quality architecture and landscape that is contemporary and befits the quality of this urban village. Modern architecture can be outstanding and lets demand the best. We dont want nondescript rubbish like what neighbouring Illford has got in recent years. This kind of poor quality architecture represents the worst kind of corporate greed and destroys communities and neighbourhood. Lets choose our battle for quality but lets support regeneration and change.
I am a local resident, I live and shop in the local area. I have a stake in the community and yes I do cycle 8.5miles into the city to work.
Anonymous commenter on 16th October:
ReplyDeleteI think that most people do not understand the extent of the chronic housing shortage in this country and especially in London.
Newham has the biggest housing problem in London. It is not going to be solved by bringing more people into the borough. There will be no affordable housing in this development, and it is of no use to the families and single people who are desperate for housing here.
Land is in short supply and you are failing to understand this if you suggest that we try and build more terraced housing that looks like 'Victorian' housing.
Land is not in short supply in London, least of all in Newham. There are hundreds of hectares of brownfield sites that could be and are being built on without the need to demolish existing buildings. Why do the oldest buildings in the Woodgrange Rd conservation area have to be demolished?
Young people want a community that reflects their vision of modern urban living.
Really? Have you seen any of the property TV shows, like 'Location, Location, Location'? The last thing young people want is to live in a modern tower block.
People who want to live somewhere with a 'quaint village' feel should move to the Cotswolds.
So if people who have lived here all their lives, whose roots are here, whose parents and grandparents lived here don't like what is planned for their neighborhood, they should move elsewhere? Even if we wanted to move, who is going to buy us all a home in the Cotswolds?
London is a thriving cosmopolitan city and people come here to work hard and play hard.
That's great, and that's why I came to live in London. I don't see why that means I should sit back and watch my local neighbourhood being destroyed.
Contd.
ReplyDeleteYou middle class 'nimbys' should put your money where your mouths are and invest in your local community if you want nice cafes and gastropubs but you can't because you are at home raising families
Which "middle class nimbys...at home raising families" are you referring to? This doesn't describe any of the people who object to this development that I have met and spoken to. Most of us have paid thousands in Council tax, which we expected the Council to use for the benefit of our local community. Personally I spent 13 years working at Newham General Hospital, using the professional training and experience I acquired elsewhere to help the people of this community. Now, because I object to the oldest buldings in Forest Gate town centre, in a conservation area, being pulled down and replaced with tower blocks I'm a nimby? What person does want 10-26 storey buildings like this in the centre of their community?
I have the impression that the majority of people who approve of this development are white, middle class nimbys living on the Woodgrange Estate who do not shop in Forest Gate, or otherwise engage with the local community, and whose only interaction with Forest Gate is as they walk to the station on their way to work, or drive through on their way to Waitrose in South Woodford.
Young professionals working in the city attract investment as they go out and spend money and that is why developers want to attract them. Once the money and investment arrives you'll get your pizza express and waitrose appearing on the high street but until then you'll be stuck with chick'n lick'n and kebab central...
The city workers this development is aimed at will not shop, eat or socialise in Forest Gate. If you work in the city you meet up with friends and colleagues in town after work. You shop at lunchtime near work or drive to a big supermarket to shop at the weekend.
Contd.
ReplyDeleteI have seen this all before where I was brought up, where a thriving community was destroyed over a decade by being turned into a commuter dormitory, with local shops, pubs and restaurants all closing because the commuters shopped, drank and ate elsewhere, and had no investment or interest in the local community. I don't want to see the same thing happen again here, and I certainly don't want a Waitrose or Pizza Express here. The existing fast food outlets, "chick'n lick'n and kebab central" as you describe them, are there because they are successful, and they are successful because they cater for people who currently live in Forest Gate. They sell Halal food, which is why they are popular among Forest Gate's 29% Muslim population.
This is just a cynical profit-making exercise. Many of the existing shops in Woodgrange Rd will close, and never reopen, There will be boarded up shops there for years, just like Stratford High Street, and the flats will take many years to be let or sold. Forest Gate may not be much to look at, but I have grown to love it. If this development goes ahead as planned, I really think that in ten years time Woodgrange Road will be as dead as Stratford High Street.
Apart from about 4 years I have lived in Forest gate all my life .
ReplyDeleteThis area was home to many different people ,wealthy local
business people that also lived in the area , and their kids went to school
Here ( unlike today when people go on about how good the local schools are but send their kids to schools out of the area ) money was spent here making Woodgrange road a very busy place with every kind if shop and lots of entertainment .
Then there were the labourers , factory and office workers who either worked
Locally or travelled to Stratford , there were many local factories in the 50s 60s 70s either way most of the money was spent here . The low level Victorian houses and shops, and its closeness to Wanstead flats made this a very special place which is why it was so popular. Until the 90s the cars in Woodford road would often be held up by a herd of cows walking down the middle of the road and often escaping into the back streets to make a meal of someone’s flowers and although I don’t agree with animals being used in a circus we often had a herd of elephants trooping through the high street on their way to Wanstead flats . This area always has been very different from any where else
Anti social behaviour is a very modern word , schools then didn’t tolerate bad behaviour neither did most parents so that never seemed to be a problem . You could walk home late at night without any fear of what might happen unlike today .
Bad planning and bad taste has taken away quite a few of the areas beautiful buildings and they have been replaced with modern day slums , this should not be tolerated any more . Take a look at how this area has become because of the way people think today , people shut in boxes that are supposed to be homes too afraid to go out day and night , no actual neighbours no one to speak to if you are on your own
No local back street shops or pubs where you could have a chat , council estates and these rubbish high rise are places that probably no designer or architect would live in.
Well they wouldn’t have to with the money they get . If people are so fond of high rise living why not move to Stratford its all laid on there , right next to the railway
And Westfield of course , wonderful , Forest gate should have money spent on it to bring the area back to the Forest gate of the past , a busy well to do area with great shops and entertainment and family homes with neighbours in a low level Victorian village setting not single rabbit hutches 26 storeys high , people want a life not an existence . .
Born and bred in Forest Gate, the regeneration/development of the area is important to me.
ReplyDeleteI wholly support a programme that would gentrify the area - Forest Gate North has great potential enjoying Wanstead Flats and being home to some stunning properties in the surrounding area. However building a 26 storey building will not achieve this - there is a great sense of community in this part of Forest Gate, Forest Gate/Wanstead Flats deserves a 'village feel'. Regeneration is very much needed in the area, however this should be in keeping with many of the period properties/heights in the area and should be sympathetic to these.
I agree that offering housing to 'city workers' is the right thing to do, which would again support gentrifying the area. We DO NOT need more social housing - how can a council even be thinking about this as an option in such austere times? Forest Gate should aspire to areas such as Balham and Clapham, which were once upon a time undesirable, and now offer shopping at a range of independent stores on the high street as well as great eating & drinking options (something that the area lacks and would be a welcome alternive to the Westfield shopping cenetre). Accommodating social housing will not achieve this - Forest Gate will then never change.
Forest Gate needs change, but needs to be done with quality of life in mind and with aspirations of moving away from being a 'dive' for so long.
Anonymous 25 October 2011 13:13
ReplyDelete"We DO NOT need more social housing - how can a council even be thinking about this as an option in such austere times?"
I disagree, more social/affordable housing would save the Council money. It is in austere times that we need social housing more than ever. In Newham we have thousands of families in unsuitable housing, on the housing list or being housed in extremely expensive privately rented or temporary accommodation which costs the Council a fortune in housing benefit - there are currently 13,230 people in Newham living in private rented accommodation and claiming housing benefit, compared to only 8,000 in both Lambeth and Wandsworth where Balham and Clapham are situated.
It costs over £3000 a month to rent a house on the Woodgrange Estate, and average gross wages in Newham are around £2000 a month - I think this demonstrates that we desperately need more affordable housing in Newham generally and Forest Gate in particular.
Lambeth and Wandsworth put together have fewer people on housing waiting lists and in temporary accommodation than Newham, and provide more social housing than Newham. In Newham 32% of people live in social housing, in Lambeth it's 38%, and 64% of all new builds last year were affordable housing.
Wandsworth is a different matter as it is a much wealthier borough than Newham, and despite having more people has only about 400 households in temporary accommodation as compared to Newham's 2,500, and only 6000 households on the housing waiting list as compared to Newham's 32,000. They don't need to build as much affordable housing as Newham.
The Balham regeneration project included a mix of social and private rental housing. If Lambeth and Wandsworth can manage to provide their residents adequate and affordable housing and regenerate its town centres without building tower blocks, why can't Newham?
All housing statistics from the Shelter website.
http://is.gd/sL68U6
P.S. I just looked up Clapham regeneration, and found they are about to build a 12-storey building and a lot more social housing there, including "two large-scale public works of art for the scheme" which will be embedded with bits of old rubbish provided by local residents such as, "broken china, mirror, glass, jewellery, stones, spectacles, cutlery, buttons or keys". What is it with these weird public art works recently? I don't get it.
http://www.estatesgazette.com/blogs/jackie-sadek/2011/10/cathedrals-clapham-scheme-shines-out.html
There has been no consultation on this (only "exhibitions" to tell us what will be done - purely for "profit" in the words of the developers).
ReplyDeleteNo Asian or Black people had their say on this. Don't the views of people who are Asian, Black, or any other bme group, count with Newham Council? 100% of the views recorded (Forest Gate SPD) are from people who are White British/White Other. Does this represent the views of ALL the people in the UK's most ethnically diverse borough?
We want to be involved. The Council needs to go back to square one.
I live in Newham and have never been attracted by Forest Gate as a place to live or shop (sorry!).
ReplyDeleteLooking at these the new development plans, they look ugly!!. Why are we building such dull boring uninspiring buildings??. Yawn Yawn
I have no objections to tall high storey buildings (sorry), so long as they are beautiful, have character and a soul. I am not talking about the stuff in Canary Wharf, but we need to find the best architectes that can blend Victorian architecture with modern high rise blocks.
There is a housing shortage, and we cannot go on building terrace houses.
Affordable Housing: I have no objections, but those that should get it should prove they will be good neighbours. Some housing association tenants are a disgrace, saying that I have met some amazing people who live in housing association. So only deserving people should get affordable housing e.g. working people willing to improve their lot....
I was born in West Ham and lived in West Ham until it lost its identity and joined East Ham becoming Newham in 1965 ( who knows why ).
ReplyDeleteYou said you have never been attracted to Forest Gate as a place to live which means that you do not live here . Forest Gate today isnt the Forest Gate I know and love , it is fast becoming a rubbish tip with council estates and modern building that lack style and taste making the area look like a slum , this in itself attracts the wrong kind of people, they hang around these back street council estates drinking and causing trouble until all hours of the morning , people do not want to go out at night because unless you drive or get a cab you have to walk back through these back streets with the arches and alleys that architects seem to think look so lovely but are great hiding places at night . High rise and council estates do nothing for the area but terraced properties do .The high street was once a very busy place but so were the back street shopping areas and pubs which have all been demolished or turned into more flats Every weekend in Forest Gate there were two venues that had dances with live groups and singers then there was the Odeon cinema ,all very busy and you could walk home safely at night because the streets had terraced houses where people knew one another and there were no gangs hanging around at night.
This area does not need high rise it needs terraced properties , every time a dance hall or a pub closes it gets turned into more flats more accomadation we dont need more people here
we need safe streets , good individual shops,
low level terraced housing , and entertainment .
Stratford may only be up the road with its Westfield and multi, multi, screen cinemas and the biggest Macdonalds, but I am not interested in that awful looking place with its glass and metal structures , I want my Forest Gate back while it is still a possibility . If you didnt know Forest gate in the not to distant past then you have no idea what this place had and what has already been destroyed by the council and so called designers and architects, I do.
In reply, Carol I have not seen the Forest Gate you speak of. I suppose only people who were 10 years or older in 1965, will have any living memory of the area. And I find it hard to imagine, Forest Gate having a club with singers. You paint a lovely picture of Forest Gate.
ReplyDeleteWe can agree, on many things, I don't like Westfield glass and metal structures either. Saying, that I welcome some of the shops.
I agree about good individual shops and often our high streets are blighted with chain shops.
Carol, whilst you value terraced Victorian housing, but I think that is in part, Newham's downfall. I think people prefer larger semi-detached or detached houses. The housing in say leafy green Wanstead is better then say in Newham. I know there are some streets in Newham with amazing double fronted period houses.
You middle class 'nimbys' should put your money where your mouths are and invest in your local community if you want nice cafes and gastropubs but you can't because you are at home raising families
ReplyDeleteI would love to see cafes and gastropubs, but these plans will not deliver this sort regeneration.
I have seen a lot of regeneration in London, so I have seen good regenration and bad regeneration. I like the regeneration in Shoreditch / Old Street versus the regeneration in Canary Wharf / Isle of Dogs.
Poeple who live in Canary Wharf don't engage with the local community and let alone neighbours in their own buildings. When ssomeone tryes to hold a residents meeting only a handful of people turn up. Hardly a sign of a 'real' community.
The people in Shoreditch are much different and they are seem to be 'changing' the world.... and they respect existing buildings..... with a modern twist...
I don't think the Shoreditch type regeration can be engineered in some councill office....
Young professionals working in the city attract investment as they go out and spend money and that is why developers want to attract them.
ReplyDeleteHave you been to Canary Wharf?. Where are the waitroses you speak off? Where is the cafes?
The city types do not interact in the local community.
It is right we attract peopel with money, but it is the 'right' kind of people that will respect locals, rather then see locals as 'chavs'....
My cousin ran two dance halls in Forest Gate ,
ReplyDeleteThe Lotus ballroom and The jive dive in Earlhan grove which was in a house , One of the houses that they plan to demolish he also used to hold dances in the Eagle and Child , his brother ran The Two Puddings pub in Stratford .Another cousin ran The Blind Beggar in Whitechapel.I often worked at the Lotus ballroom which was above Burtons tailors , now the 99p shop. Its funny really because you dont know how lucky you are at the time but I used to watch the groups set up , The small faces , John lee hooker,Screaming Lord Sutch,The animals ,Wayne Fontana and the mindbenders, Mary Wells,John Lee Hooker,The Kinks and many many more he also ran a dance in West Ham baths (The Atherton Centre )and Jerry Lee Lewis was the star attaction. The air vent for the channel tunnel (the massive wall )The early building on that site was a music hall called the Grand then In the 50s when I was a teenager it was a roller skating rink ,it was then The upper cut owned by the boxer Billy Walker , this also had groups and singers such as The Who ,and Jimmy Hendrix then it became a dancehall called The Ace of Clubs. Now nothing .
I'm quite happy with Forest Gate as it is. Yes it needs a few improvements, but given the choice between no change and the bland and sterile future proposed by Newham Council and their so called partners, I think I'd opt for the present uncomfortable yet familiar reality.
ReplyDeleteBut I live here and my views don't really matter, and thats the point about the whole regeneration business. It's one big ugly scam, designed to ensure that the "professionals" get their way in the end.
We'll end up with an ersatz re-creation of an inner city suburb. A soul destroying image devoid of any real life- the perfect place for the privileged and arrogant middle classes who now control London.
Yes I admit it. I'm just a bitter old working class scumbag waiting for my orders to move further out east thereby allowing more lebensraum for the happy shiny educated yet somehow vacant new elite who have already airbrushed me out of my community's history.
The future is grim and seedy. It's the perfect place for Robin Wales and his corrupt acolytes. They're welcome to it.
The entire regeneration of Newham needs investigating. Who is profiting from it?
ReplyDeleteAlso, who will profit from Crossrail?
And if a runway and high speed rail terminal are built in the Thames, who will profit from them, too?
And just how many fancy new tower blocks does Newham need?
What do we need, really? I'd say jobs, and schools, and surgeries, and updated social housing, and care taken of just about everything.
Bringing in gated communities in tower blocks won't help any of us already here Because they're not going to shop here, not do their socializing here, nor work here, nor create jobs here --and they're not going to stay here for long.
As I see it Newham has a stated planning position outlined in the Forest Gate SPD published last year.
ReplyDeleteIt may have been updated by the Newham Draft Core Strategy published this year and Boris Johnson's revised London Plan.
The Obsidian planning application (once it is submitted) will be judged against these documents. So it is hardly a shock that Obsidian are working to ensure that their master plan is acceptable to Newham.
Why does that surprise anyone?
Any developer not wanting to waste his money would seek to minimise his risk of failure by consulting with all the relevant planning authorities in advance of submitting his formal planning application.
So just because you don't like Obsidian or their plans really is not good enough!
You will need to demonstrate that the submitted planning application departs too much from the published planning policy to be approved.
Carol: You paint a lovely picture of Forest Gate's past! I would have never know.
ReplyDeleteAnon 22:26 : I agree if the choice is between doing nothing and this crap development. My option is also for doing nothing.
Anon 15:52 : Agree, new communities don't interact with existing communities. We need new people and businesses to move into the area. We need an 'organic' change.
ErnestL : Did anyone contribute to the Core Strategy?
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